Top Takeaways
If you’re short on time, here are a few golden nuggets from our conversation and the resources mentioned.
- Reach out for help from people who are doing what you do and do not be afraid to ask for the yes.
- The mental game is the most difficult part of the entrepreneurial journey.
- Be open to doing the thing you love to do more frequently for your happiness, even if it doesn’t pay as well as alternatives.
- The entrepreneurial schedule can bring you more time with your family, while also bringing narrow times of sacrifice to grow your status in the field.
- Do what you love to do that the market is willing (and eager) to pay you to do it.
Resources Mentioned
Continue the Conversation
After enjoying this episode, what are your top takeaways from Tim?
And what's one lesson you learned in this episode that you'll take action on over the next week?
Get to Know Tim
Bob: Tim, it is so amazing to have you on for this issue of the Lead Generation.
Tim: Bob, I'm pumped to be here. It's like a weird full circle. I get to be on the other side of the mic thing. I love it.
Bob: Absolutely. We'll talk a little bit about your history with ConversionCast, the predecessor to The Lead Generation as part of the Leadpages outreach in the podcasting world. But before I do that, many people may not know that you are an established voice actor, and before that, of course you're doing other things. So how did you get started in voice acting from what you were doing before?
Tim: I was a full time touring musician for about seven years. Played all over the country. In that time, when you're touring, you're broke. So I constantly was trying to find ways to pay the rent. One of the things that I stumbled into was all these business podcasts, one of which being Smart Passive Income. I was listening to that, and these people on the show have these really cool little niche businesses.
I was like, "All right, well, I'll start a podcast, and it will be about business," which is hysterical because I didn't have a business, but I wanted to talk about it. So I started interviewing people, and I made an intro for my podcast, which was called The Awesome Podcast. And it was not awesome. I made an intro and I was like, "Entrepreneurs want to learn from other entrepreneurs."
It was so corny. A bunch of people reached out to me and said, "Hey, will you make me an intro?" So I started making all these podcast intros for people and I was doing it for nothing. And then for a few bucks, and then John Lee Dumas from Entrepreneur on Fire reached out to me and said, "I want you to do my intro." And I said, "Okay, we're friends. I'll do it for free." And he was like, "No, you will not. You're gonna give me a price."
So I gave him a price and it was really low, and he came back and he was like, "Nope, that's not fair. I'm going to pay you this much and you should start charging that to other people." That's what got me started. Along the way, I learned a little bit more about the different facets. Where I'm at now, I still do a lot of podcast intros, but the bulk of my work is actually audiobooks and TV Promo. "Tonight on Fox," that kind of thing.
“I found his (info) and I emailed him and said, ‘How do I do what you do?’”
The funny thing about that, there's a really interesting story about that and I'll share really quick. I was watching AMC, I love The Walking Dead, and I walk around the house going, "AMC's The Walking Dead," and I was thinking, "That guy, that's his job, is to do that, is to go 'AMC's The Walking Dead,' and I want that job." So I found his name, I found his email address and I emailed him and I said, "How do I do what you do?"
He was so cool about it. He got on the phone with me, he walked me through it, he taught me. The rest is history.
Bob: That's amazing. I hear two things in what you've just said. One is you got a great kick in the butt from a bit of a remote mentor. He was like, "Charge what you're worth, and I'm not going to take no for an answer," which is fantastic. And you also reached out for help from people who are doing what you do and not being afraid to ask for the yes.
It seemed to me, knowing you from back then, that you were unattached to them actually saying yes and that allowed you to build this relationship and now you're featured on like Jimmy Kimmel and NBC's The More You Know and some other types of sessions on TV. It's really cool to hear your voice just like randomly pop up on these TV shows.
Tim: Thank you. Yeah, I had no idea. I didn't know what it meant. I didn't know what the business was. I just knew, wow, that sounds really fun. So I'm going to find this guy. Now, come to find out this guy that I reached out to, he's voice acted for The Hulk and he's the voice of AMC and all these other things and he's sort of big deal in the voiceover business, but he got right on the phone with me and helped me.
I think there is something to be said for people that are at the top, willing to help people just getting started. He was more than willing to help me.
Bob: That's great.
Turning Years of Practice into Expert Coaching
Bob: I think that I would love to ask this question a little bit ahead of where I would like to go with the interview because you've also had the opportunity to flip the tables, where people are now coming to you and saying, "Well, how did you get started in doing podcasts? How'd you get started in doing voice acting and webinars?," and all those other stuff.
What was it like for you to be able to be in that position of authority after thousands of hours of practice to be able to use that as part of your business, too?
Tim: It's a really cool, it's really fun because I know what other people did for me when I was just getting started, and look, I still think I'm just getting started. But it is cool that people will come to me and say, "Hey, how do I do this and want to learn about it?" And I have now at this point developed a process for when people come to me. I have this website that a great voice actor set up and I send them to this website and once they're done reading it, they can come back to me. Like 95% never come back to me after that.
Tim: But when they do, yeah, I'm happy to refer them and it's really cool to be thought of as a thought leader even though I'm still, like I said, I'm really early in this world. It's great.
Bob: It's a great help. Digital marketing accelerates the history of a person such as yourself. That's really cool.
Staying Mentally Tough When You Work Project to Project
Bob: As you look back to your trajectory and your timeline of doing your business and you obviously worked here at Leadpages as a webinar and podcast guy, what obstacles did you run into? What frustrations almost stopped you in your tracks, but you learned from and you're a lot stronger for it?
Tim: Well, I think especially as it relates to voice acting, I think one of the things people don't realize is that every job, you're fired from. I might get booked to voice some promos for a show on NBC. When I'm done with that, when I finish that session, I'm done. If I get booked for a commercial, when that commercial is done after my hour long session, that's it. Next job I've got to go find.
https://youtu.be/qpe__BLf7jo?rel=0 An example TV promo from Tim Paige for NBC's "The More You Know"
So I'm constantly having to go out and get the next job and get the next job and get the next job. There are some long-term contracts, but for me that's a big obstacle, going from having the security that I had at Leadpages to constantly having to go and find the next job is really difficult. What's more difficult than the money so much is the mindset, because I'm constantly thinking, "Okay, I had this great job and I did The More You Know, and they haven't reached out to me in a while. Are they going to replace me or am I not good enough?"
“The mental game is the most difficult part of the entrepreneurial journey.”
As the trends change, you hear more and more on TV, a lot of the promo voices are the big deep voice guys and I don't have a big deep voice. My natural sound is what you're hearing now and that's what I end up doing a lot for my promo stuff. I think a lot of it is just having to deal with feeling like I'm not good enough, feeling like my time has run its course. I'm not on trend anymore. And so my career is going to go into the toilet.
I think that's the biggest hurdle. I think every entrepreneur has to deal with that anyway, even though not all businesses are like voiceover. Even when I was doing webinars, and that was the majority of what I was doing, it's always like, well, is the next webinar going to be good enough? Am I doing the work that's worthy of all this money that this person is paying me and I'm representing their brand? Am I doing a good enough job of that?
I think more than anything, the mental game is the most difficult part of the entrepreneurial journey, at least for me.
Strength Through Relationships
Bob: I think you speak very truthfully there for a lot of people, and I would imagine that it's helped you fine tune your relationship building the way that you connect with the people who do hire you. Are you getting some network effects of people making recommendations of your work to other people?
Tim: Yeah. I would say the most important part of my business has been those relationships, that networking, not the going to an event and handing out a business card kind of networking thing, but just the real relationship building. That for me has made all the difference. It's what got my voiceover business started in the first place. It's what got me into TV promos. It's what got me into audiobooks.
Just a couple months ago did my first audiobook and now I've done 12 in like two and a half months. And that was because a friend was like, "Hey, you should try this." Like here, let me refer you to somebody. They got me my first audiobook and I fell in love. So those relationships and being real with people and connecting in a real way, that has had a profound impact on my business.
Bob: That's really fantastic.
Bob: I was going to ask you about the audiobooks because this is a new world for you. I happened to be listening to Ancient Echoes as we speak, and you've done a trilogy now for the author. I make up that audiobooks is one of these intimidating opportunities that you might've had resistance for it.
Talk me through your being introduced as this referral to taking on this new way of using your voice and what I make up to be a pretty arduous job that might take a little longer than your average TV promos.
Tim: Yeah, there's no doubt, it is an incredibly difficult process. I think all the voice acting is really acting. The most successful folks are actors, but in audiobooks it's like performing a monologue for 12 hours or however long the book is. It's really intimidating. Truth be told, all in all, audiobooks don't pay as well as most other parts of voiceover. For a promo session, if you take more than 12 minutes in the session with the engineer on the other line, you are not doing a great job.
You might make, let's say $1,000 for that 12 minute promo session, whereas an audiobook, you are paid per finished hour of the audiobook. So that means if it takes you seven hours to complete one finished hour, which is realistic for a lot of folks, I'm a little faster than that. And I've hired a team to do all the editing and stuff, so it goes a little faster. The union rate is like $250 per finished hour.
You're not talking about a lot of money. And so for me that was the big thing. It was like, "Well, I can invest all this time into this thing and really have to focus and I've got to read the book ahead of time so I know, start to finish, what's going to happen. I know where the twists are so I can play those. And I know if this character has an accent and all that stuff." I was looking at that thinking, "I don't know if I have the ability to do that."
My friend is a trailer actor. You've heard him in a lot of big movie trailers over the years ... When he was like, "Look, well how much time do we actually spend in sessions doing the thing we love, the acting? That's what we love to do. So how much time do we spend in a day?" And I was like, "Maybe an hour. The rest of the time is auditioning and business and all that stuff."
He's like, "Well, with audiobooks you're spending two, three, four hours a day doing that thing you love. And yes, it's less money, but you're really doing that work." And I was like, "Well, that's a magical way to look at this." And so yeah, the book you're listening to is the first book I got, and I got into it and I completely fell in love, and like I said, I've done 12 now and I've got another bunch scheduled. So it's a lot of fun.
Bob: Yeah, that's amazing. I'm just super curious, since listening to this particular book there's a lot of globe-trotting for this adventure or anything that's going on, do you do the same accents in one shot or do you switch as the story goes along?
Tim: It's all as the story is going on. If you hear a conversation between two people from different parts of the world, I'm doing that in real time.
Bob: Cool. I was just curious because I could see the efficiency model is like, I'll do all of the people from Mongolia in this one session with no context of the way the story sounds. That'd be a big pain in the butt, but that's really cool.
Tim: The context of the story is, in my opinion, more important than getting the accent dead on. Most people listening to a book are not going to be from that particular region. And although I want to do that honor, it's more important to me that I get the story right.
Setting Fluid Boundaries When You’re Always On-Call
Bob: Let's switch over to the personal zone a little bit. You mentioned that you were a touring musician for several years with Honor Bright, and you obviously have a great family now. Couple of kids, great wife, all that stuff. How do you balance your personal time, your business time, and what is this entrepreneurship world that you've been so successful in in various stages, how has that been impactful for your personal life?
Tim: It's hard. It's really difficult as you know with kiddos. It's a really hard, because I'm working from home. My studio was in my house, and I can walk out the door at any moment and go play with the kids. It's one of my favorite things in the world to do. So it's really hard to not do that. When I'm doing promos and commercials and that kind of stuff where the sessions are quick, and I'm in and out, and the time that I would be giving up would be marketing time, it's a lot easier to do that.
When I'm doing audiobooks though, I've got a deadline and I've got to record for usually three to four hours every single day in order to meet my deadlines for the audiobooks I'm doing. It's really hard to balance that. On top of that, we're entrepreneurs and we get to set our own schedule. At the same time we don't necessarily, we have clients that have things that they need. I do a lot of work for the CW, which is a TV network if you don't know. They do a lot of the DC Comics shows, but I do a lot of their events, like Howie Mandel's All-Star Comedy Gala.
https://youtu.be/hG-FyA9Np70?rel=0 A familiar voice promoting Howie Mandel's All-Star Comedy Gala.
With that, the TV world moves fast. It might be in LA at 4 o'clock, LA time, I'm in New York, so that's 7 o'clock, my time, they might need something and I could be out playing with the kids. Well, I can't just say "No, sorry, I'm out with the kids," because they can say, "Okay great, we're going to replace you," and then I'm done. I'm done at the CW. I will not book again because they need you when they need you.
Finding that balance for me, what it's been about is there's a few times where I will just say no and accept the consequences of probably losing that client. Most of the time I won't. And I make time throughout the day. I make time for important events and I bring my stuff with me when we go places. A great example: we went to Disney. The first year I signed with my agent. I have one of the biggest agents in the country. They're incredible, and they've got the biggest names in voiceover, and then there's a little old me in the corner.
We went to Disney World and that's our favorite place in the world. My agent called me and said, "I need you for an audition." For folks who don't know, we don't get paid for auditions. It's just you do it. You may never hear back. You only hear if you book it. So I'm in Disney and I'm going, "Well, can I do it tonight, when we get back to the room I have my gear with me, but I'm in the middle of the Magic Kingdom right now."
"Nope, I need you now. Go do it now." So I had to leave, take about two hours to get back to the room, record it, and then head back to Magic Kingdom, leaving my wife and kids there with her mom. Luckily we had support. Doing that, built that connection with my agency. They knew that I was somebody that was willing to put forth the effort. Now, that may seem like, there's no balance. I'm not spending time with my family, I'm just always on call. But I also have the freedom to at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, if they want to go to the park or the zoo or whatever, we can go do that.
“Some days are really work heavy and other days are really family heavy. It's just finding that balance on a day to day basis.”
What I've found is just finding that balance wherever possible and having a supportive wife who is like, yes, you're living your dreams and sometimes you have to sacrifice, but other times you're home and you don't have an hour long commute in the morning and then in the afternoon. You have the flexibility to say, you know what, my wife's sick, I can go and help with the kids a little bit today and take some time off of work whenever I need to. And then other times they have to be flexible.
The short version of everything I just said is that it's really hard and it's a balancing act all the time. Some days are really work heavy and other days are really family heavy. It's just finding that balance on a day to day basis.
Bob: I imagine that there's quite a bit of communication that you do with your wife and your kids. How has that changed as your kids got older? I think there's a lot of people listening to the Lead Generation. They're members of that cluster of people we consider as entrepreneurs that are doing their thing, and some of them might have the one and three year old and your kids have gotten a little bit older obviously. How has your ability to do what you do changed just simply for the chronology of your kids being old?
Tim: I don't know how much it's changed. My kids are two and five as we're recording this. They're still really young, but they're not babies. That has been helpful. When my youngest was a baby, I was smack dab in the middle of this and it's hard. There's so many demands. You have to focus on that baby. And my wife is a stay at home mom, so we do have that where she's able to focus just on the kids. But it's hard.
It's really hard to pay attention to a little one and take care of all their needs. Then there's the older one who's wants all that attention. So yeah, it has been hard, but I would say it's gotten a little easier, except we're in the terrible twos now, so that's fun.
Bob: The growth into threenager hood, I am in that with you.
Tim: Uh huh. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. That's fun.
Lessons Learned from Over 1000 Podcasts and Webinars
Bob: Let's shift over to your time with Leadpages. You did a lot of work obviously with our webinars as well as our podcasts. Pick your poison on either one of those. What were some lessons you learned from how to actually do that as a marketing channel? You essentially launched both of those for Leadpages and did an awesome job of it.
Tim: Thank you.
Bob: Obviously, our success is a testament to that, but pick one of those. What did you learn that those people who want to start up webinars or want to start up a podcast, what's one or two things that you would, if you had a time machine that you could go back to to when you started those types of channels, what would you do for that conversation?
Tim: For the podcast, I think it was be willing to be a little bit different. Clay and I talked about this a lot when we were just starting it, and we were looking at all this stuff that was out there and there was so much out there that was general business advice or general marketing advice. It was so vague and we wanted to do something that was really particular, that spoke to what we were trying to do at Leadpages and people that would use the software would be trying to accomplish.
“Decide what you want to be and where you want to fit into the market, how you are different, what's unique about you. Because there's a million podcasts out there in every niche you could imagine. But you can still be special.”
We got as specific and dialed in as possible, and when we would get a guest who would want to tell their story, although I love hearing people tell their stories, we were just trying to do one specific thing. That really worked well for us. We would steer them back to, "Okay great, but we're talking about this case study. We want this one thing." For anybody who wants to start a podcast, the best advice I can say is to decide what it is that you want to be.
Be a little flexible and willing to move a little bit as you need to, but decide what you want to be and where you want to fit into the market, how you are different, what's unique about you. Because there's a million podcasts out there in every niche you could imagine. But you can still be special. And I think we were special because we were doing that and nobody else was doing that. Nobody else was talking about those individual little things that people did that got them results so that you could listen to the show and go, "well, okay great. I'm going to try that and see if I can increase my email open rate." Or whatever the thing was for that episode.
We collected our most popular episodes from Tim's time hosting ConversionCast for Leadpages. Download these episodes free now.
Download the Best of ConversionCast
As far as for webinars, I think where we were really different was we had a plan, we had a mission and we had those things in place that worked for us for each webinar. What was special was we were just really authentic. We just went in and said, okay, here are the three things or four things or five steps or whatever that we are doing or that our customers are doing that are getting results and I'm just going to share them with you.
Along the way I'm going to go, "By the way, if you want to do these really easily, let me show you how to do that with Leadpages. Let me show you how to do that with whatever we're talking about at the moment." Authenticity along with a plan for how to turn people into customers, that was what worked for us on the webinar front.
Bob: Yeah. I think that there was a level of not being attached to the outcome that makes that feel authentic and like a relationship that you would want to be on as opposed to a lot of webinars tend to be super pitch heavy with buy this stuff now because it's got to be purchased. Otherwise, you're a loser.
Tim: Yeah, you've even watched so many webinars and never get anything out of it. It was really important to us that when you watched our webinar, you can never spend a dollar with us and still walk away feeling like we changed your business. Everything we talked about was things that you could do on your own, it's just that Leadpages made it better or more efficient or easier. So we said, here's the great guidance, here's the what to do and if you want to do it really easily or more effectively, use Leadpages.
“It was really important to us that when you watched our webinar, you can never spend a dollar with us and still walk away feeling like we changed your business.”
Accountability and Growth with the Right Counsel
Bob: You've also mentioned in our conversation today a few people who've helped you kick your butt a little bit, gave you some advice. As you look at your phone or your Kindle or whatever you happen to have, who are you listening to? Who are you reading that's helping you become more of what you are excited about?
Tim: Yeah, it's such a good one because I'm all over the place. I have found that coaches, specifically hiring coaches for individual areas that I felt I needed help, that was the biggest thing that has had a big impact for me. If you think about famous athletes, the best of the best have coaches, not just on their team but for the individual aspects of their game that they want to get better at.
That's a lot of what I'm into. Most of my listening time is spent on things outside of the business, outside of marketing and business and entrepreneurship and voice acting even. Most of it is stuff I listen to just to engage my brain in a different way. But then I work with individual coaches to focus on different things. So I have people that I work with for the general business stuff.
In fact, one of my ... He's not a formal coach per se, but he's one of my best friends and he's the guy I always go to for a lot of business stuff and especially mindset stuff, is Jeff Wenberg. Jeff and I were at Leadpages together for a long, long time and he's one of my best friends. We bounce ideas off each other all the time to try to, a lot of it is like is mindset. Like we're stuck in this one thing and all it'll take is I'll tell him something I'm struggling with and he'll just be like, "Dude, you're thinking this." And it just completely will be like, "Oh yep, that's the answer."
And it's often such a little thing that you just don't see because you're in the weeds when you have somebody who knows you and understands what you're trying to do, but they're not in it every day. They can usually see that thing that you can't see and then give you just the one thing that you need to know where you can go, "Okay, I see it now. The picture is becoming clear. I can continue down this path, but with a little more knowledge, and I can avoid that pitfall next time." That's a big one for me.
And then another one is, I think when you are an entrepreneur, when you have kids, or a family, I mean this happens to everybody. You don't have to have kids and family, but it just adds that extra level of difficulty is the time spent focusing on yourself and the things that you need to be, a high performing entrepreneur and to be great at what you do, and for me that's been fitness. I never cared about fitness. I hated fitness.
For my entire life and it's only been about a year and a half now that that's been a big difference. I got a coach for fitness to help me get in shape, and that has given me higher energy levels and higher levels of focus so that when I am doing my thing, I can do my thing better. I can be in the booth, I can be marketing harder and smarter and paying more attention to what my customers need. I don't know if that answers the question of specifically who, but that for me is finding coaches in specific areas, has made all the difference.
Bob: That's really remarkable. I’m wanting to know, curiously and selfishly, about Scott Brick, that I know that you got a chance to chat with. Great audiobook narrator and voice-actor for the Bourne Ultimatum and all the other Robert Ludlum books and some other really great novels. What was it like to just sit down with somebody that has that kind of established career track record and get some advice?
Tim: Well, the cool thing about Scott is that not only is he just this prolific narrator, I think he's got like 1,100 titles, which is absolutely ridiculous and these huge, amazing books like you mentioned, but he's won awards for his coaching. He's such a brilliant teacher that not only does he do this amazing work, but he's also amazing at helping other people do it. And he's launched so many careers. It was really cool.
“How many times have we run into these people that we all look up to and we talk to them and (find out) they're just like everybody else. They're just one of us.”
To get to read for him was intimidating. Looking at this book that I'm recording right now and reading it and having him sit there and go, "Uh Huh. Uh Huh. Okay. You know what? That was really good. I don't have a lot to say about what you just did." It's awesome. I guess it's like any other thing. It just reminds you that these folks that we all really admire are just normal people.
I mean, how many times have we at Converted or at these events, we run into these people that we all look up to as marketers and entrepreneurs and we talk to them and we hang out with them and they're just like everybody else. They're just one of us. It's the same thing in the audiobook and voice acting world.
Bob: Yeah. It's typically the way I always looked at it, was they just had a little bit of a headstart and they've been able to get into it a little bit sooner, but otherwise, as one of my former mentors says that they still put their pants on one leg at a time.
Tim: Yeah. Or they work from home and don't put their pants on.
The Two-Sides of the ‘Pursue Your Passion’ Advice
Bob: Well, perhaps we'll have another chance to chat about your veganism and some other really cool things that you love to do, but I think we're going to start wrapping up. Before we do, is there one like key to success that you just keep coming back to you for yourself, that you might tell yourself or when people come to you and they're asking, "How do you do it?" What would be one thing to lock in for entrepreneurs and the members of the Lead Generation today?
Tim: Yeah, I think it's the best and worst piece of advice that there is, and that is pursue your passion. I think it's the best and worst advice at the same time. It's the best because when you do that you have something that you're driven to and it can help to give you guidance when you're looking at two options and you can't figure out which one to go after, well, the one that lights you up go after that.
“When you can find that juxtaposition between the thing that you absolutely love to do and the thing that the market really loves to pay you to do, that's where the magic happens.”
It's also the worst because if the market isn't willing to pay for that thing that you love, well then you don't really have a business and sure you can create these avenues or whatever, but I think when you can find that juxtaposition between the thing that you absolutely love to do and the thing that the market really loves to pay you to do, that's where the magic happens. And you don't have to be passionate to do a great job in the world, but it sure makes it a lot better.
I've found that when I pursue things just for the money or just because, well, it's something I can do well, I never stick with it for very long. I don't think I do as good of a job serving my customers and clients when I'm doing those things. Whereas, when I'm doing something that people really need and I'm really passionate about it, I'm so much better and I deliver such a better product and it's not because it's intentional that I'm not helping as well when I'm not passionate about it, it just happens. The energy goes behind it. So I think the best and worst advice is to follow your passion, but I guess the caveat is as long as people really need you to do whatever it is you're passionate about.
Bob: That's really wise to bring that all together and not just be one sided on it.
Tim, it's been fantastic chatting with you today and I would love to make sure people know how to connect with you, learn more from you. What's a good spot for them to go online to check out more about Tim Paige?
Tim: Awesome. Yeah, if you have any need for voice acting services, anything like that, explainer videos or promos or commercials, the VoiceOfTimPaige.com. And if you're an author and you want your audiobook narrated, you can check out samples at NarratedByTimPaige.com.
Bob: Well, thank you so much Tim, and the best to your family. It was really great to chat with you today.
Tim: Yeah, same to you too, Bob. Thanks.
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