[Podcast] Feature Based Selling is Dead (With Stacy Dally)

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Ryan

Today we're going to discuss how feature-based selling is a thing, perhaps of the past, and what you might need to consider moving forward. We're going to spotlight today The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill, how it taught us connecting experiences with your customers is what really moves the needle. That and much more on today's episode of On the Record.

Today we're once again joined by the wonderful Stacy Dally. Stacy, thank you for joining us. To my right again, Michael Sacca, CEO of Leadpages. I myself who has previously been coined the head honcho of marketing at Leadpages, Ryan Truex. Today we're super jazzed to get into feature-based selling. Perhaps why it works and frankly, why it might not be working anymore.

So, Stacy, as we have previously, tell us a little bit about feature-based selling and what it might mean for the listener.

Stacy

Sure. Feature-based selling is really technical. It's very black. White. This is what it does. This is how it does it. Very, old school. Somewhat. Yeah.

Ryan

Okay. Yeah. No, it is a little of that. I mean, Michael, from your perspective.

Michael

Yeah. I think, you know, you're you're going against a checklist classically of here are the things that that my product does. Right. If I were selling a vacuum would be what, you know, how much dirt can it suck up per minute or per second. Right. Versus what's the end result of my house after I've used this high-performance vacuum?

Really how I feel as I'm doing it. So I think there are components here, and I know you guys aren't as jazzed with feature-based selling. I think there's important components here that we'll talk about. But I, I agree there's more to a sale than I think this, this kind of legacy technique of making sure that we hit all the checkboxes.

Ryan

Yeah. And I think we'll we'll dive right into it because something I'm a little bit beholden to myself is this clear-cut identification of what happens, what do I get from it? And sometimes I like that literal nature to it. But maybe your opinion differs a bit.

Michael

Yeah. So I mean, what I like about it, and I think in certain instances it's really important is, there's clear understanding of the product capabilities. And oftentimes we see that tension between sales, marketing and product where sales is kind of selling the, the solution. Right. And, and we want to solve all the customer's problems. But we can't always and we make the sale.

The customer comes on and then the expectations aren't met. Right. When the customer on boards, we see that over and over again. One way to solve it is to implement a bit more of that feature-based selling, to make sure that on the other side, the customer is actually getting. We've promised them through the sale.

Ryan

And Stacy Boyd's over-promising. Right. Like that's literal nature to it. Like again, it's a subjective, you know what you're getting out of it. I mean, is that an advantage of ours or is that a disadvantage?

Stacy

It depends. Right. Because if I'm looking at, vacuum. Yeah, I love this example of that. Right. I mean, you know, apparently you're in the market recently for that. You can't get old. Dyson's not working. Yeah. You're in the market for a vacuum. I do want to know what the what the stats are, how much dirt is going to suck up in a minute, and how much it can hold and how long it's going to last.

I do want to know that I don't really care. I know it's going to make my house cleaner. I know that's why I'm buying it like that. To me, that is where, to your point, it manages my expectations right away. I'm not looking for anything really else in a vacuum. Maybe other people are, but those people are weird in my opinion.

But for me, I do. I want the feature-based. That is where I do think it is an advantage.

Ryan

I do too because quick decision-making is part of the customer journey, right? Like we want the customer to get to that purchase again as quickly as we possibly can. In the literal approach to that message, either gets in there a dozen and there's not a lot of gray in the matter, but would you agree that it allows for a quick decision, or is it one of which is informed enough?

Michael

So I think it allows for a quick decision. I think it allows to set the expectations that are really important. Yeah. I think the part that we're all missing from it is the story.

Ryan

Yeah.

Michael

And it's hard to get into that, that moment where you're looking at the stats without first the story of why. And I think that's where a lot of sales teams might suffer, and where marketing can really help build some of that material for the sales team is what is the store? What is the result of buying your product?

What does the other side look like? The key is how do we realistically set those expectations so that the customer, we may sign the contract, but we also want them to stick around, you know, and that's where if we don't implement any feature-based selling, I think we're actually doing ourselves a little bit of a disservice.

Stacy

So yeah, I kind of think about if you have a human, if you have a salesperson behind it, use that to your advantage. Don't just have the human the salesperson list off the ABC and. Right. Because, I can do that now. Like marketing can do that in their materials. Right. Like use to your advantage of having a person behind the message.

Michael

Yes. Yeah.

Ryan

It might hearken back. I mean, I'm always a lot of good story as a marketer, but of like effective differentiation. Like, do we believe that a feature message is that way of like, hey, this is what we do and do it really well. We get down to brass tacks, what's happening or does it lack the story? Somebody an inability to sell a feature is inhibited or, you know, I mean like that's that's why I kind of want to ask is, are we able to create enough effective differentiation through feature-based selling?

Michael

Yeah.

Stacy

Differentiation I think is overused. I think that oftentimes we are fallen into the trap of trying to differentiate ourselves from the next person to the next person, when really we are very similar. We are and we do want to try to differentiate ourselves, but I don't think I think it's used too much. Like sometimes, you know, we are like the next person and that's okay.

Being able to know when to differentiate, I think is really key because otherwise that message just gets lost. You just keep hearing how you're better. You're different than X, Y and Z, and just that can get lost in how crowded the world is now with messaging.

Ryan

Is feature-based selling most inhibited by this ability to be too technical? The customer doesn't really always appreciate the technical depth that we provide them. I mean that that the main barrier we're talking about today.

Michael

Yeah, I think it's hard to, captivate an audience for a long time. Right. Sometimes in the enterprise, like, you have to, you have to get there and make sure that you've, you've checked all the boxes, it does all the things because you're spending maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. But it's hard to even get to that point without the actual value-based selling, without putting the customer in the shoes of being the customer, or the potential customer in the shoes of being a customer.

And without that, it's hard to even get them to sit there and go through the checklist. It's hard to collect their requirements without knowing what problem they're trying to solve by even having this conversation. And I think that's really where we see the feature-based selling kind of fall down. And where the value-based selling really starts to, to take over.

I think they both have their downsides, though. And, and I, I still see the value-based promises causing so much friction post-sale. And that's a problem that even when adopted, I don't think it's fully solved yet without this kind of checklist style.

Ryan

Yeah. So we'll keep talking about the clarity of messaging. Right. And this is again something that's getting in between us and that effective communication with the customer. When we talk about features though, they become commoditized quite quickly. I mean we've all bumped up it against our career something things we've sold a little generic size. Right. Like so how how does feature-based selling or value-based selling play alongside of that?

Michael

I think it does make it harder to differentiate. Right. And you are competing on the next thing. Yeah. Unless you truly have a different feature. But even those are the window of opportunity and that is probably I mean, in software it's probably much more. Right. So yeah, we will end up kind of burning ourselves out, always trying to find that differentiation if the story isn't different as well.

And I think when the story blends with a product that is striving for differentiation at times, it works really well. You look at like MailChimp, right? Like they've they've gone they've got a great story from the beginning. Kind of the humble beginnings coming out of Atlanta. Not San Francisco. You've got this brand that is challenging to kind of work with.

You got this monkey. They've even gone further into that and leaned into that. The actual product is often only one step ahead of where the market is, but you might choose it because you want to be part of that story and you want to see yourself as a customer. And I think they do a great job of creating a world around them that you want to buy into first before you even look at the checklist of what you're getting.

Ryan

What I think we've talked about this problem we will have, and we'll continue to do so. The iPhone is a great example when it comes to market at first, wildly technical feature base. These are the things that are so exciting because they're first to market, right? I think that's one feature best selling work. So it's like you have to convince the market what you have matters to them.

We watched the iPhone become wildly successful. They get to do what they want and that's what outcomes it's the personal experience is what you get from an iPhone when it is interfacing them on a daily basis. That's the leverage of winning it. And being successful, I think, is that you can walk away from feature-based selling when your story is so compelling, your product so good, or it's so widely adopted. I think that's the thing we're all seeking out. But few get to that unicorn status, right?

Michael

Absolutely.

Stacy

Another example comes to mind. I don't know if you're all familiar with the Big Green Egg, the grill. Yeah. Okay.

Ryan

Now it's a mic, right?

Stacy

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Literally it looks like a big green egg. It's a grill though. And I was recently listening to a podcast of their CEO talk about how he measures success of how many times that this big Green Egg is mentioned in obituaries. Well, yes. That’s where you thought I was going.

Michael

No, not at all.

Stacy

Yeah. Grills in an obituary. And because it lasts for forever and it becomes part of family gatherings and friends and it's a staple and it's always there and that it gets passed down from generation to generation because it is so durable and, and it's, it's in so many celebrations and things like that. And so sad that it actually ends up in obituaries like every few weeks.

And to me that's where you're kind of talking about like he really want to be part of. They're saying the brand it’s like part of the family, part of the celebration and not so it heats up and cooks your food and excellent amount.

And you have to use this and you know all the different features of a grill, but more of like, what's happening? What are you doing? Why is it so important to use that story that you're, you're saying, hence the Big Green Egg in obituaries?

Michael

Yeah. You could do a lifetime warranty, or you can show up an obituary. But honestly, though.

Ryan

I mean, I love PR so you're you're in my heart right now. I think it's a unique opportunity to see if we can segue from Big Green Eggs into The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill, because she did teach us some things, much of which are fascinating. But I think there's this connected experience that Stacy, you just hinted at in the record itself.

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Ryan

All right, so today we have an album that's relatively prolific. It's incredibly critically acclaimed. If you look at any best record of all time list, this likely finds its way into the top ten. The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill I've said this a few times a day, but the connected experiences that Lauryn was able to create with those that were buying and purchasing a record was something that rarely has been seen.

She had a resonance within the community that her record was them, her music was them, those listeners. And I think it's gonna be interesting to talk about how that emotional experience that we've been discussing. You know, we talk about feature-based selling, value-based selling. It's our inherent belief that it's the value-based selling that tells a story.

How does this start to weave in that the value-based thing looks a little bit like how her success was built?

Michael

Yeah, I think like there are formulas in music. Right. And so I think it's really easy, especially as she was an accomplished art, not a solo artist yet, but she, she, she was an accomplished artist. So she did have some prerequisites. And she could have taken the easy way out. Right? She could have kind of brought in some of the top producers, could have could have built something that had five hits, radio ready.

She did in the end. But she took a completely different way to get there, which I think is really interesting. I think she could have taken this formulaic approach. She opted for something that was much more personal.

She was singing about things, that you don't necessarily you didn't hear on the radio at that time. She was singing about her new child. She was singing about her relationships. But in a way that wasn't, the generic love songs that we hear. And I think that's what really resonated with she was able to create something that people could see themselves in, but was also uniquely her. And it was her only really her voice at that time that I could have brought that to.

Ryan

Life 100%. Maybe just speak to the originality. We're talking about this authenticity, this relatability, how it shows up. But maybe to you, Stacy, what does it mean?

Stacy

I mean, when I was listening to this, I was like, I get it. I mean, to be honest, I have never listened to the album before. And I was trying to listen, for this podcast. And so that was a song. I was like, oh, so this is what the hype is all about, because a couple of weeks ago on the radio, there's some, some trivia or something like that, and, it was number one album of all time, and it was this album, and that was the first I've actually heard of it.

There's my ignorance of it, but that was the first time. And then a few weeks later when I'm listening to it, I'm like, okay, I get it. Because to hear but like, she is like, you just feel it. You're like, this is very different. I don't even know. When did this come out?

Ryan

If I was to look back here, this is 1998 on Columbia Records.

Stacy

Okay? Yes. I was alive, so, but no ship helps. Even, like, listening to the 90s, but, like, it did differentiate itself in a good way, though. Like, in a really good way. And I do think it paved the way moving forward, too, because now more and more songs are a lot more authentic. And if they're not authentic, they're getting kind of hit on, like, where is the original? You know, like it's like, I think she really kind of started that wave of authenticity.

Ryan

Yeah. I think you said something that's really poignant, right? We have to leave the customers with a get it, like, I don't care if it's the feature-based thing, if it's a value-based thing, they have to get the why right. I think sometimes they didn't feature best seller. We get it wrong. We just think that we built a thing that's cool and you're going to want it and it'll work.

Reality is, do we even expose the why did we really align with the pain and then the outcomes that we've built. And I think that when Laura made the record, I think that her originality showed up and everything that she did, as I see here, she wrote, she performed, she arranged, and she produced the record. That's how you create a connected experience with your audience, because she owned every phase of it.

Right? Much like a product department, with the marketing department, we all know those components. We can achieve this excellence that she has done. It just takes a lot of the and the right thinking, in the right decision-making. Maybe. Mike Clayton, for your vantage point, how do we make decisions that lead us to an excellent outcome like this?

Michael

Yeah, I mean, I think she chose to stay true to what she wanted to create. You know, I think it is worth mentioning that she wasn't the only artist on this, this album. There's certainly a lot of controversy around kind of her claim that it was more of a one-woman show here, the group that actually backed her and helped to write a lot of these, these songs, has come out since and trying to get there.

So I think, there was a lot of mythology about the album when it came out. Yeah, that was one of the storylines with this very like independent, production. I think we saw her choose artist, that related closely to her vision and that really helped. And that was her choice, right? She brought together an incredible group of musicians and created a really cohesive album. You can listen to it front to back.

Ryan

No, rarely.

Michael

Rarely. I think there's an interesting, counterpoint, though, to the album as a whole is there's kind of a before and after-release effect. When it was released, there was a ton. I remember I was, young, but yeah, I do remember when it came out, I, I owned it and there was this, this great mythology around it.

It was kind of known as an instant classic at that too, as well. But when we talk about the value-based selling, we actually saw some of that when she goes on tour. And fans were quite disappointed, actually. And she would show up late.

Ryan

Notoriously, she would.

Michael

Sometimes like they didn't feel like she was really into it, kind of lackluster performances, very hit-and-miss. And so this is some of that, like there was this huge expectation that was set because of all the PR, the mythology around the album and just how good it is on recording. That it wasn't always met in person.

I think she struggled to kind of find that quality bar on tour. She was dealing with a lot. It's not necessarily. We're all human, right?

Ryan

Of course.

Michael

But, being the product that is then delivered, we did see some of that failing where the expectation was way up here. She was able to meet here, but that did turn some fans off, at that time. So, yeah.

Ryan

I wonder if we'd feel the same way about this record if it wasn't for the video channel. The medium of video, right? Like we're talking about how we sell things effectively, right? No matter your tactic, like you can agree with us or disagree with us today. But when I think of like, do off that thing, that song comes to life in a visual way.

I'm not sure I feel the same way about it, but I don't see that visual that corresponds with it. The video was filmed in the streets, and it's this connected experience that we're talking about, but the song is a bit different than the rest on the record, and I wonder if the visual medium again has allowed us to feel differently about this, similar to the features that we sell and all Stacy would feel maybe anything on that.

Stacy

I mean, this is a promo for MTV, right? I, I like, like, yeah, I mean, I did not grow up with MTV and it's super obvious because when I think when I'm talking to other peers and things like that, when we're talking about songs, I don't have any visual. Yeah, because I didn't ever watch music video. It just wasn't something.

And the couple that I have watched, I'm not going to tell you which ones because that would be embarrassing. But it was it had like that does come to mind here. To your point, that really does stick with me and like the story of it, but other than those few, I don't get that visual. And it is very different when I'm talking to others because I often hear, oh, remember when blah blah blah blah blah happened in that song?

I'm like, absolutely not. So I do feel a little disconnected, honestly. When talking about some songs like that.

Ryan

Yeah, not 100%.

Michael

I think there was there was a story about her bringing the demo tape to her label, and is is kind of one of the we see it in product a lot too, when we get too many cooks in the kitchen and I think like, do I may be one of those examples where it does. When you listen to the album, it does stand out.

I mean, it's incredibly catchy, but it has a little bit more of that production value and you gotta wonder, I know she brought it to the label. They weren't thrilled with the demo tape. They were kind of like, they're expecting something more Fugees or something more marketable, maybe. And they pushed her just a little bit to get that radio hit, to get some of those, those edits.

And I do wonder, was the video more of the vibe that she was going for? But, the end result was, was maybe a bit tainted with too many people kind of pushing the buttons there.

Ryan

Yeah, it reminds me, if I brought a go-to-market strategy that you didn't like and you're like, try again going back, this dude like, read me that single, right? Like it's that. But then it changed the tune of the greater story. Value-based storytelling is one of which is a kind of a long-told, long-building groundswell, you know, can she achieve the connected experience that we've thought with that in position?

Right. Like I think it did work out at the end of the day, but maybe in an unconventional, unorthodox way. So personal feels, I guess. I want to ask you, both of you, do you feel like this is the classic that it's touted to be? I mean, people say it's one of the best top ten. Is it that period?

Ryan

Stacy.

Stacy

It's not, it's not. I mean, to be really honest, I, like I said, the first time I listened to it was just a few weeks ago and for me, classic I, it has a lot of longevity but for me, it's just not because it's so it's so recent. I thought it was great. But to me a classic is like I'm raving about it.

I know a lot of people, you know, all that kind of stuff. So for me it's not a classic but also a little younger. So maybe there is a little generational thing going on there too.

Ryan

Yeah. Michael, how about you? Classic?

Michael

So I think it it felt like that when it came out, I would say listening to it again, it's a great album front to back. I don't know if it quite gets to that classic. To your point, it's not a record I visited in a while, yeah, similar. Revisiting it, it did feel, a bit more produced than I think I was.

I had remembered, but that's not to say the body of work is incredible, and the story has certainly lived on, and she's still relevant today with one solo album under her belt that she can still take on tour. So yeah, I think yes, in in some cases, I would not include it in my kind of top ten.

Ryan

Yeah, I would suggest that Lauryn Hill's PR team has kept her alive and well throughout these years. Less maybe of her. She was such a notorious, incredible artist in her time. Since time has went on, we're all human. Life has challenged us in certain ways. Lauryn’s story has changed much over the years, but when I think of if this record is a classic, it is not.

It's a classic 4 to 5 stars from me. Often this is one is coined to be a five-star experience. I think there's highs and lows within the record where there's quality. Like, I think you can tell where this was, you know, probably built over a three month period of time, and then it feels like a few bolt-ons like that might have came later.

So I think about the likes of classic records is going to say, well, it was all produced in this period of time and then it shows. That reflects that. Yeah. So I mean, I still will suggest that everything, everything is like in my top 20 songs of all time, but that doesn't mean it's a classic record necessarily as well.

So I mean, again, that goes back to features. Can we create classic, timeless stories? I think we've tilted fair in favor of the value-based story. Right? We're talking perhaps about the death of feature-based selling for and sass. I think people should consider, at least when they're thinking about their own product story and go-to-market strategies.

Michael

Yeah.

Ryan

All right. Good opinion. Some hard ones today on this I love this. All right. We'll come back with more and some key takeaways.

All right, three unique vantage points on the record today I think we all came to with similar opinions, but also ones that were very different in our stance. And I think it also harkens back to feature-based selling vs value-based selling.

I think we're in favor of value-based selling, Michael. They're going to need to leave with a couple key takeaways today. What are you telling the listener that they need to apply to their own business?

Michael

Yeah, I think the story helps to open up this album. And I think that's something that we can take away. And I think if we take the touring aside and we just take the body of work, the album delivers on the promise, as a listener when you get into it. And I think that is what is made it have this long-standing relevance in, in our music today.

Ryan

Yeah, absolutely. Stacy, your perspective.

Stacy

Yeah, I would say the key takeaway is, use what you got.

Ryan

I like that.

Stacy

Be resourceful. Yes. Be resourceful. I mean, your product isn't the only thing that you're selling. To your point. The story, the humans behind it, where how it came about, the origin, where you're going, all of that use all of it. So it might not appeal to everyone, but you don't. Your product doesn't appeal to everyone, probably. I mean, I besides the iPhone, even that like, doesn't even appeal to everyone.

All those that staunch, Android users. So to use what you have and don't be afraid to alienate, some because that's just naturally going to happen and some are going to love it. On the flip side, yeah.

Ryan

I'd suggest also, no matter your position in today's conversation, this is the power of brand. In later episodes, we're going to continue to talk about this thing. What does brand mean to you? These are the stories which make the product story or the brand story far more compelling than it would be without. So I think it's time to really emphasize your efforts again, whether you align with value-based or feature-based, I think the decision makes for your brand story, and it can change, of course.

Some great opinions today. I mean, this is the kind of stuff that we like to talk about, right? The intersection of music and marketing. Right. It's a fun way to talk about topics that mean things to your personal life and also to your professional as well. So, Stacy, I want to thank you for your time. The colorful examples and commentary is always Michael Way is in our conversation to the product vision that you are.

So, and this has been fantastic in a variety of ways. And as always, you can find us on your favorite podcasting platforms. We're thrilled to have this podcast presented by Leave Pages, us three or employees of that. So we're a little biased, but, some excellence that we've talked about today, much more to come into the future. And you'll find that in more in future episodes of On the Record.